that, because in a way, mitt romney and john kerry are very formal people, they are obviously well educated people with a kind of refinement about them, they aren't sloppy in any way, obnoxious in any way, they use firm language but both basically strong people, in the accomplishment, it was probably a very good pick but the romney that came in last night i would say you were right a couple of minutes ago, that romney was not predictable, he came in so strong and so in charge that he basically took over the room and i felt he was sufficient on that stage meaning the president didn't need to be on there for romney to put on the show or jim lehrer, it was romney control of that space and physical control of that space which was so dominant, i don't think we have seen anything like it before. >> rose:. >> in probably a presidential debate. >> rose: i also heard this was not a new romney in the context of have i seen him before. >> yes, mike barnicle saw him in the race for governor when he did win that against shannon o'brien and he has put on that performance but i moderated one of the debate